Best atc belay device reddit Dec 13, 2023 · Manual braking belay devices like the ATC require the belayer to be at the top of their game, never removing their hand from the brake line while in use. But he asked for a tube not a grigri. (You can also compare the GriGri and ATC to other top belay devices in our belay device buying guide. Dmm pivot. Assisted braking devices like the GriGri are designed to clamp down on the rope to help the belayer arrest a fall, which can add a layer of security but some argue that the device can make the There's a ton of devices to use to get out of the tree: Figure 8, ATC, Belay devices, and you can always just rappel using a munter hitch. Does somebody remember those ones? (been 14 years now) :) It didnt came with that litle steel cable that the "new" ones now have. I love this device, it’s light, small, ergonomically designed and intuitive if you’ve used ATC before. A Grigri is very easy to use, and its semiautomatic brake is really safe. a locker attached to the mule loop and around the rope gives extra security. I’m only 100 lbs, and it really helps me give a good belay and a comfortable controlled lower. For lead climbing, a Grigri is more difficult to use correctly than an ATC; for top-rope climbing, the opposite is true. A coworker is just getting into climbing. In defence of the belay master we use it when we're clipping kids into the rope for top roping for speed. I prefer the beefiness of the ATC. I love it soooo much. If the grooves are too wide, the rope can twist and pinch in guide mode, or worse, actually change position and not lock at all. She passed the belay test, we climbed a night using an ATC, but in getting to know you conversation, I discovered she began having seizures last year, but hasn't had one in over a year. If you already own an ATC just learn how to use it, it’s a fine device. com Aug 26, 2021 · The base ATC is the most straightforward (you can’t load it backwards like the Guide since there are no ridges for the brake side), and it is cheaper than the Guide, though both are on the cheaper end for belay devices. 5mm ropes. Otherwise just get an Grigri and quit sucking the dicks of the safety brigade. You can use it for a double rope rappel, and belay one or two climbers following. I use Jul2 indoors and outdoors on sport single pitch climbs. 1mm, Petzl reverso for minimum 6. If you don't like the brake assist on rappel like some people, you can flip it, and it'll act like a regular ATC. 5-10. Its more the matter off belaying in guide mode. As a leader I would prefer to just carry an atc guide, as a follower I prefer to use a grigri and carry an atc for backup and as a rappel device. Get app Get the Reddit app Log In Log in to Reddit. Dec 22, 2022 · However, which device is best for you is much less clear. I'm curious about the safety differences between these devices. And yes we are scared of falling. I'm in the market for a new belay device. It's perfect for when you have a climber doing a hangdog top rope project. Tubulars and plate style devices are good for rappelling, but they are not self-braking or auto-blocking and can be fatiguing to belay with. 1–10. A new small rope will always be fast, those are treated to be more durable so they’re a bit shiny? Anyway it’ll just lower really fast. if you use an atc wrap the brake side under the device and pull it through the locker like it's an even more extreme lock off position then tie an overhand and then tie a mule to lock off the belay on the rope. Black Diamond’s ATC-XP adheres to the age-old adage: If it ain't broke, don't fix it. ) It locks like a GriGri with no moving parts, feeds like an ATC, can belay a second or two followers, and can feed a double-strand rappel. Good question. I rocked an ATC for 15 years before deciding to experiment with new belay gear. The Mega Jul is best for rappelling, however overall for a singular device to take outside, the Mega Jul is best. The safeguard is so popular because it can be used like a prussic/ropeman1 and also allows you rappel down at anytime if something went wrong, instead of having to switch over to a separate device. All my climbing partners use one so it’s not really an issue that comes up. I find myself reaching for the Grigri when i know my friends are going to top-dog 5. The ATC-XP is relegated to the gym or as a rap device when I TR solo. I like to think I'm skilled with all of them. Most belay devices should have information on the intended rope size so I would double check that your rope fits. This extra friction isn't really necessary, people used tube style devices for a long time with no issue. Atc will also fail in some cases if your seconds falls while he’s making his own clove hitch at the belay. The ATC does not have auto-locking, which is a non-negotiable feature for us. The Black Diamond ATC Belay Device. Jul 11, 2024 · Best Budget/Entry-Level Belay Device Black Diamond ATC-XP ($25) Style: Tube What we like: Cheap, simple, durable, and easy to use. Please wait while your request is being verified Moral of the story. A mule knot can securely tie off any style of belay/rappel device. On Edelrid's website, they state that it's designed for 7. I am quite light (~55 kg) and frequently belay people heavier than I am. However, the climbing world is slowly phasing out this style of belay device, much like figure-8 belay devices. I use a BD ATC Guide for everything - belaying single pitch, multipitch, and rapping. seminar where the main instructor indicated that he is comfortable using the ATC in guide-mode without always having a hand on the brake-side of the rope because when used that way, it is an "auto-locking device. Telling people to get a device without assisted braking because "it'll create good habits" is so silly. 3a) From the bottom, I belay off my belay loop with the ATC and two carabiners O&O 3b) From the top, it depends on the situation and belay stance/anchors. What we don’t: To belay from above in a multi-pitch scenario, you’ll want to step up to a device like the ATC Guide or Reverso. I do like the ATC pilot because it is much cheaper and has the same general motions as an atc with the added feature of being assisted breaking. My belay device (reverso) is rated for 8. The home of Climbing on reddit. More friction in the system in that mode. 5-10mm ropes, so this hasn't been an issue so far. Use an ATC on trad climbing or if you are using half/twin ropes. 3mm. Salewa Ergo and that device never became popular anywhere. A grigri is no harder to learn than an ATC for a brand new climber. This well-rounded belay device doubles as a rappel device, and its capacity makes it our best bet for multi-pitch climbing. Sep 21, 2023 · Many people still belay with non-assisted braking devices like the ATC-XP. Ease of use. It's also lighter. New climbers can usually benefit from simple belay devices, such as the Black Diamond ATC Guide, to remove the number of variables they have to master. The german alpine club thinks the Ergo is the best device more or less. A simple overhand with a biner might be OK, but it will slip through until tight and be difficult to loosen later. Always belayed with an ATC or an eight. Its just more expensive than the other devices. This is because learning to belay with an ATC will develop good habits. 6 at the gym a dozen times or for use as a backup self belay device to quickly switch over to rappel. But that's just my 2 cents. Get an assisted braking device and use it properly always, that'll create good habits too. Look dude, when it comes down to it, a grigri is just a fancy tubular device, they can and have failed; bad belay technique with a grigri is just as dangerous as it is with a tubular device. An ATC is more delicate as its proper use requieres more attention and experience. I like to lead belay with the Mammut Smart, top rope belay with the GriGri and I keep an ATC with an auto-locking biner on my harness when I'm climbing outside for rappelling. An atc guide or similar device will allow you to belay from the top in guide mode, belay two partners from above, and rappel off the route. It allows the device to take some of the weight off of you when lowering a partner heavier than you. ATC-XP - If you put the brake side of the rope through the teeth, you get some extra friction, if you put it through the non-teeth side, you get the same friction as an ATC. It also takes rope diameters down to 7. Black Diamond ATC Guide best practices vs. Use a Grigri. You might take a look at rappel devices intended for canyoneering, especially if you only need to rappel and not belay. My fisrt belay device was an ATC that looked like a coin. The ATC-Guide offers smooth handling while you climb with its lightweight and easy-to-use construction. 5 mm single rope. Be super super picky about your belay partner. We would like to show you a description here but the site won’t allow us. there are 0 use cases where ATC is the best device. The grigri (device with a lever) is a hands down better device. . Get him a tube with guide/plaquette mode. By that I mean, I’m fine with someone who uses an ATC(they have their valid use cases such as twin ropes/ rappels etc- even then there is the mega jul and smart alpine), but if they get all Don't listen to any of these gumbies talking about how the grigri is better. But the mechanics are the same. I don't own any climbing gear past harness, shoes, chalk, & ATC. If it doesn't rappel well, it won't lead belay well. Because ATCs are for old men that climb 5. ATC. The ATC-Pilot is hands-down the best belay device I've ever used. Most devices (except possibly the Pivot) don't lower well in guide mode Try the Pivot, but honestly, I think you need two devices. Their life is in your hands. Get him a reverso, pivot, or ATC Guide. The Grigri, Smart, Click Up, and Mega Jul are all going to be better devices. I'm just too lazy to learn, and I've grown to love the Smart. 3M subscribers in the climbing community. The grigri is over hyped. From your own posts: took his hand off for a second bad belay, the end, device does not matter one bit. He asked for an ATC. 6. 11 votes, 34 comments. g. The GriGri can't belay two followers or rappel, and it's also expensive, with moving parts, which we don't like. Here's my thoughts on a couple of them: The Petzl Verso is basically the same as an ATC, but a little less beefy. Yes, this is a bad belayer all around. The Petzl Grigri2 is impressive. Everyone who uses my ergo seems to enjoy it. In practice, you have the climber's weight on you and the trick is to lock off the belay tight first, and then make a backup knot. Mostly indoor and single pitch outdoor. I like using the ATC (Reverso 4) for a number of reasons, I like having a free hand when I'm lowering so that I can take out any kinks or twists in the rope as they get close to the belay device, this results in an ultra-smooth lower. Anyone who reccomends an ATC at this point is an uninformed Luddite. I love using some sort of ATC for lead belay personally. " The ATC Guide is my all time favorite belay device. ATC - the standard tube style belay device. Keep reading to learn about the Grigri vs. GriGri, specifically for top-belay I recently attended a two day trad. In choosing between these devices, consider how much weight/price budgets and your intended use for the device. I try to pick the device depending on what I'm doing. With the grigri you have to use both hands to lower, one on the device, and one on the rope. I like to know I'll have a chance if my belayer gets taken out by rockfall. Fite me ;) If you do need to rap / belay, a thin rope is a double whammy since you get less friction from the device and it's harder to grip and apply friction to the break strand. Between these two devices, which do you prefer? Many of the primary belay devices people have suggested look good for this purpose, I will be giving those a closer look - it would still be nice though, to find a backup that can work alongside the primary belay device - e. In my opinion best of geometric assisted devices on the market right now. I also sometimes use non-assisted tube device (Reverso, ATC, etc) or a Munter / Super Munter hitch, but with an auto-block ("third hand") friction hitch (Prussik) on the brake strand to my leg loop. Pretty much the best ATC style belay device there is. Both belay devices should be fine over time you’ll get used to the belay difference… If you really want it to feel different you could try an ATC Alpine… but their intended use is 8. 0 or the Black Diamond ATC Pilot. Would you feel comfortable having someone belay you with an ATC or Mammut if you're used to the GriGri? Just lead climb on the single rope and tag up the half rope while clipping it to the gear, and you may have to belay your buddies up one at a time (pain in the ass). I much prefer if my partner has an assisted braking device. Those are all tube belay devices (ATC is the brand name) but they have more functionality if he ever goes outside. As others are saying, learn from staff what to look for and watch them belay someone else a few times (why be the ginnae pig?). for when I climb with a belayer who is more comfortable with a specific device, that doesn't automatically provide this May 28, 2024 · Fortunately, the newer belay devices are beginning to accept a wider range of rope diameters, which means that it's easier to bypass any potential rope diameter issues. with other belay devices it's similar but for something semi-assisted like a grigri i'd just tie a Open menu Open navigation Go to Reddit Home. If he falls and the clove hitch is not complete the carabiner will prevent the atc from blocking. I have the petzl freino belaying carabiner. Atc style belay device will fail in some cases when you have 2 seconds coming to the belay horizontally (traverse) if I remember correctly. Adjustable friction and thin-ish ropes (typically 8-9 mm, not 6) are common there. I am thinking of purchasing an assisted braking belay device - either the Mammut Smart 2. However, I've noticed that some climbers prefer using ATCs or Mammut devices, arguing they're safer and less prone to mechanical failure. As NOsquid said, its so much smoother Edelrid Mega Jul. Apr 27, 2021 · Here are the best belay devices: Petzl GriGri 2; Black Diamond ATC-Guide; Edelrid Mega Jul; Petzl GriGri + Petzl Reverso; Black Diamond ATC-XP; How to Choose the Best Belay Device for Your Needs. They're super easy to learn, and use mostly the same "muscle memory" movements as any regular tube device. Also it's light, cheap, and I believe it to be really safe. It’s important to mention that these kind of devices work best with dedicated belaying carabiner. I've mostly used 9. If you have any of them, there’s no need to throw it away for something else. Personally, I always teach people how to lead belay on an ATC first to develop these habits properly. Sometimes, I clove in tight and belay off my rope tie in loop, sometimes I re-direct, occasionally I belay directly off the anchor. The operation is similar to a traditional ATC and it's light, with a brake assist for lead belaying. This isn't to say you should never use an assisted device, but it's better to learn how to use an ATC correctly first. Lowering is easier also the orientation of the belay loop for guide mode is 90° compared to the BD ATC wich orientates the rope either up or down on a anchor. anyway. Works super smooth, and is easy to handle. Learn how to tie one (plenty of good youtube videos) with the device you plan to use (most commonly taught with an ATC, but works about the same with others) and you'll have a quick, secure way to block off a rappel and go hands free. 1. A: There are few different types of belay and rappel devices: tubulars, plate/figure 8 devices, guide-style tubulars, assisted braking devices, and active assisted braking devices. On the matter of fixed-point belay, guides from AMGA, IFMGA, ACMG (Canadian), ENSA (French guide school) and DAV (German) has recommended munter hitch or tube style device, and recommended against the use of Grigri bc of less rope slippage, and potential increased force on the top placement. When I started i got an ATC and I ended up buying a Grigri for sport climbing. Feb 12, 2024 · The Black Diamond ATC-Guide is a device we commend for being able to do it all. When I teach people to belay I always have them learn on an ATC as I’ve seen too many climbers depending on the assisted braking of other devices, leading them to do unsafe things like take their hands off the brake strand without tying off the belay. Black diamond atc is rated for minimum 8. There isn't anything on the market that remotely comes close to the ease of use for lead belay. Frankly in plaquette mode from above you could belay with an ATC just fine I think. You use it in conjunction with an assisted belay device. I have used the mammut smart and smart alpine and really like those devices mainly because the smart alpine, again has the benefits of being assisted breaking but you can still double rope rappel. Aug 6, 2021 · To put these devices to the test so I could shed insight on these questions, I climbed up all kinds of single pitch and multipitch climbs, indoor and outdoor, trad and sport, long and short. Honestly I wouldn’t climb with someone who refuses to use one. Multpitch: 1X Grigri + 1X ATC, or 2X ATC, depending on the situation. If bringing the Grigri, leader gets a Grigri belay and follower gets an ATC auto-blocking plaquette belay. I can think of a few scenarios indoors and even more outdoors where its useful to be able to tie off the belay device around the karabiner which isn't possible at all with the belay master. Here are the conclusions. Top rope is where a GriGri really stands out. I'm looking to acquire a new dry treated single rope for glacier traverses. When belaying the same technique for "taking in" that is used with an ATC or similar device is used, however in the event of a fall instead of having to "lock off the device" the belay does nothing and the device locks by itself. I can top rope with a braking device, lead belay, and rappel with two strands from a singular device Having said that, when my partners asked me to use a safer device, I did switch to the Jul, as it has assisted breaking while still letting me belay with a relatively similar technique as the atc, and making my climbers feel comfortable is first priority You’re not at a disadvantage per se. You can buy assisted tubes for almost the same price as an ATC where you get some redundancy and where you don't have to hold the climber if they are dogging. Using the atc device is one of many amazingly dumb things people can do to get you injured. It’s worth repeating that these are all capable belay devices. 7. Provides plenty of friction for catching falls on skinnier topes, but still works great with thicker ones. So you could belay them both up on ATC. The Pilot is simple, light, and perfect for what it does. If we do our job correctly, by the end of this article, you’ll know which belay device is best for you. 0 mm rope diameters and I would wager that it performs better on the thinner end of the spectrum. r/climbing A chip A close button. See full list on outdoorgearlab. 8 is right at the lower end for the ATC XP so you'll have minimal friction plus in a mountaineering situation you'll probably be wearing gloves which will make it even harder . Else, don't use guide mode. Not hating but it's so strange to me seeing people with so many different belay devices especially for multiple situations. I use what I think is best in the circumstance. when used correctly an ATC is a time-tested, effective device. I haven't figured out the trick to leading someone out with the GriGri but my girlfriend does it all day. 9mm doesn't necessarily mean they won't help on a thinner rope but it might be sketchy. I don't like using a Grigri for follower belay because the rope backfeeds easily, especially on steep pitches. The Black Diamond Air Traffic Controller, or ATC for short, is Black Diamond’s flagship belay I own an ATC-XP, ATC-Guide, springless Sticht plate, GriGri, CT-Alpine Up, a chain link and various homemade belay devices. I've always found BD ATC Guide a one size fits all solution.
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